Panterachat

I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

whats this guitar grimoire

Brandon wrote:whats this guitar grimoire

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Grimoire-C ... 0825821711

taking some lessons wouldn't hurt. i plan i finding an instructor that holds no les than a master's degree and charges no more than $30 a lesson. i can't afford to learn from satch.

I give lessons JJ.




























































give them.......

all you give is head to twinkies and zingers, way to ruin a thread in the musicians corner you fat fag

UNGODLIKE wrote:taking some lessons wouldn't hurt. i plan i finding an instructor that holds no les than a master's degree and charges no more than $30 a lesson. i can't afford to learn from satch.

Around here it averages like $20 a lesson for half an hour from guys who, at most, have a Bachelor's.

Hey Rusty, learn how to order a floor pan. You could draw up your own too!

Pfl?yd wrote:

UNGODLIKE wrote:taking some lessons wouldn't hurt. i plan i finding an instructor that holds no les than a master's degree and charges no more than $30 a lesson. i can't afford to learn from satch.

Around here it averages like $20 a lesson for half an hour from guys who, at most, have a Bachelor's.

lucky. for classical lessons here its about 75$ an hour, but the upside is i have plenty of guys to go to being 5 minutes out of NYC.

i've never had to do it on guitar, but on piano/some brass instruments and it is a huge pain. i always just made practicing into my daily routine though, like brushing my teeth. with guitar i'd just get around to learning something as small as a riff a day and that usually keeps it fresh.

Acid Flashbakc wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

UNGODLIKE wrote:taking some lessons wouldn't hurt. i plan i finding an instructor that holds no les than a master's degree and charges no more than $30 a lesson. i can't afford to learn from satch.

Around here it averages like $20 a lesson for half an hour from guys who, at most, have a Bachelor's.

lucky. for classical lessons here its about 75$ an hour, but the upside is i have plenty of guys to go to being 5 minutes out of NYC.

i've never had to do it on guitar, but on piano/some brass instruments and it is a huge pain. i always just made practicing into my daily routine though, like brushing my teeth. with guitar i'd just get around to learning something as small as a riff a day and that usually keeps it fresh.

I was pretty shitty at committing to formal lessons when I was a kid so I never really bothered with them as an adult. I'll watch a video or grab a book but I never really enjoyed formal musical instruction outside of making sure my technique was good.

Pfl?yd wrote:

Acid Flashbakc wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

UNGODLIKE wrote:taking some lessons wouldn't hurt. i plan i finding an instructor that holds no les than a master's degree and charges no more than $30 a lesson. i can't afford to learn from satch.

Around here it averages like $20 a lesson for half an hour from guys who, at most, have a Bachelor's.

lucky. for classical lessons here its about 75$ an hour, but the upside is i have plenty of guys to go to being 5 minutes out of NYC.

i've never had to do it on guitar, but on piano/some brass instruments and it is a huge pain. i always just made practicing into my daily routine though, like brushing my teeth. with guitar i'd just get around to learning something as small as a riff a day and that usually keeps it fresh.

I was pretty shitty at committing to formal lessons when I was a kid so I never really bothered with them as an adult. I'll watch a video or grab a book but I never really enjoyed formal musical instruction outside of making sure my technique was good.

that sucks! lessons are great, no matter the age floyd! i never really took any when i was younger but I go to school for music now so it's a must.

UNGODLIKE wrote:all you give is head to twinkies and zingers, way to ruin a thread in the musicians corner you fat fag

what did you just say?

texasborn wrote:

UNGODLIKE wrote:all you give is head to twinkies and zingers, way to ruin a thread in the musicians corner you fat fag

what did you just say?

what do you teach, how much do you charge, and what is the first not of the locrian mode in a c major key signature? how many accidentals are there in that signature and what are they?

UNGODLIKE wrote:

texasborn wrote:

UNGODLIKE wrote:all you give is head to twinkies and zingers, way to ruin a thread in the musicians corner you fat fag

what did you just say?

what do you teach, how much do you charge, and what is the first not of the locrian mode in a c major key signature? how many accidentals are there in that signature and what are they?

Fucking snap!

So anyway, this shit is very alien to me, I can get the patterns on the guitar, no problem, but learning the notes, the root notes of the scale, why that matters, and the circle of 5th's is pissing me off.
Makes me remember why I never chose to learn this shit.

And I've taken two lessons before, I found them to be a complete waste of time as they would never explain these things to me in beginner terms. Then they would show me the g major scale in the phyrigian mode and tell me to go practice that.
Never helped, so I decided that learning the major and minor pentatonic scales and the circle of 5th's would be the best thing for me right now.

Modes sound so much more complicated than they are, the greek names and unmusical design of the guitar don't help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode

The root note can be thought of like an anchor, giving you points of reference on the neck. The different modes basically refer to different starting points within a single pattern (the diatonic scale) which encompasses all 8 modes (including the major/Ionian/first and minor/Aeolian/sixth scale shapes). This is probably always alien to guitarists because the fretboard doesn't reflect this order at all, as opposed to the piano where you can see all the natural and sharp notes set out.

You might know this already, but that's how I wish it had been explained to me. If you can learn the patterns, when someone told you to play A minor then you can play the whole thing, or improvise in key, as long as you know where the A notes are on the neck. Leaning the subsequent note names can come later. As for the circle of fifths, there's no point in trying to force yourself to understand it. IMO it's more useful as a description of practical knowledge than a teaching tool, especially on the guitar.

That browns towns needs to rededicate himselfs to a bitches good ass pussy

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

a hyuck hyuck!

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

And solidifies in my mind that this kid is a hack.

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

You must be a middle aged, over weight, shit bass player chasing his heavy metal dream?

Pfl?yd wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

And solidifies in my mind that this kid is a hack.

And you.........You're Coolest Smartest hippest know it all faggot fuck of the bunch. You are the poster child for dickless nerd wannabe's all over the Pbb.

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

And solidifies in my mind that this kid is a hack.

And you.........You're Coolest Smartest hippest know it all faggot fuck of the bunch. You are the poster child for dickless nerd wannabe's all over the Pbb.

Keep jamming in your bedroom and someday. . . maybe. . . you'll get to play somewhere other than a pay-to-play Battle of the Bands at the VFW Hall in front of the other bands and the chimos in Scorpions t-shirts.

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

You must be a middle aged, over weight, shit bass player chasing his heavy metal dream?

Wow, you nailed it right on the head!!! You should have your own TV show.

btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

Pfl?yd wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

And solidifies in my mind that this kid is a hack.

And you.........You're Coolest Smartest hippest know it all faggot fuck of the bunch. You are the poster child for dickless nerd wannabe's all over the Pbb.

Keep jamming in your bedroom and someday. . . maybe. . . you'll get to play somewhere other than a pay-to-play Battle of the Bands at the VFW Hall in front of the other bands and the chimos in Scorpions t-shirts.

Ummm, PFloyd buddy...I still have a Scorpions shirt.

Never given up on practicing instruments.

I used to play music all the time. Now I just drink coffee and browse the PBB. I'm getting rustier by the day.

PABassPlayer wrote:btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

I feel like I remember Paul Gilbert talking about how this was a good idea in a video once.


I suggest learning the Blues scales first. Blues is easiest for me to write a solo that sounds good because it's so easy to put emotion into it with just a few bends thrown in. I learned to improvise with Blues first though.

LaSquasha Jenkins wrote:That browns towns needs to rededicate himselfs to a bitches good ass pussy

Lo fucking L. I read this forum once in a blue moon. I read about guitar threads in this forum even less. And I just snorted.

Big Ben wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

I feel like I remember Paul Gilbert talking about how this was a good idea in a video once.


I suggest learning the Blues scales first. Blues is easiest for me to write a solo that sounds good because it's so easy to put emotion into it with just a few bends thrown in. I learned to improvise with Blues first though.

The funny thing is you aren't really making your "own" scales, you're just taking the hard way around to learning pre-existing ones. Unless you are playing utter dissonance, anything you play with any degree of harmonic cohesiveness has already been charted out as a scale anyway and I'm willing to bet that the "scales" people are "inventing" are just that.

So if you're going to do that why not take the path of least resistance and learn them the proper way and within their accepted context?

Pfl?yd wrote:

Big Ben wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

I feel like I remember Paul Gilbert talking about how this was a good idea in a video once.


I suggest learning the Blues scales first. Blues is easiest for me to write a solo that sounds good because it's so easy to put emotion into it with just a few bends thrown in. I learned to improvise with Blues first though.

The funny thing is you aren't really making your "own" scales, you're just taking the hard way around to learning pre-existing ones. Unless you are playing utter dissonance, anything you play with any degree of harmonic cohesiveness has already been charted out as a scale anyway and I'm willing to bet that the "scales" people are "inventing" are just that.

So if you're going to do that why not take the path of least resistance and learn them the proper way and within their accepted context?

I'm not exactly condoning it, but one of my personal viewpoints is the more you learn on guitar yourself the better you'll be. The more you can familiarize yourself by yourself the better. It can't be that dumb to take the hard way and find it on your own, and it probably wouldn't take more than a couple minutes out of your time anyway.

Big Ben wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

I feel like I remember Paul Gilbert talking about how this was a good idea in a video once.


I suggest learning the Blues scales first. Blues is easiest for me to write a solo that sounds good because it's so easy to put emotion into it with just a few bends thrown in. I learned to improvise with Blues first though.

When Paul Gilbert "suggested" this, he was assuming that you already have a working knowledge of theory and know scales. At that point your not actually "writing your own", but improvising on existing ones.

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

You must be a middle aged, over weight, shit bass player chasing his heavy metal dream?

Wow, you nailed it right on the head!!! You should have your own TV show.

btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

Look up Chuck Schuldiner you fucking idiot. He had some of the greatest metal solos ever and most of them were of scales that he had no idea he was playing. YES the scale prolly has a name and someone's already played it, but if you have an ear for music you will figure out the scale yourself, thus, making up your own scale.

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:

7Dime7MetalMassacre wrote:

JesseJames wrote:I've had the guitar grimoire forever now, barely ever looked at it. Now however, I have decided that I shall indulge myself by learning all the positions of the pentatonic scale, and possibly learning the notes therein.
I know shit of guitar theory, but I realize I am terrible at guitar, and no longer wish to be.
So I have decided to learn one section of the scale forwards and backwards, and learn a new song every week.
I used to be pretty good at guitar, but this was a few years ago, now I sound like I just picked the fucker up.

Hey Fuckface, its good to admit that you suck, it shows character. As far as learning root notes and scale after scale, I was always too lazy for that much work. Just make up your own scales and if you have a good ear for music, they won't suck.

You must be like 13-14 years old.

You must be a middle aged, over weight, shit bass player chasing his heavy metal dream?

Wow, you nailed it right on the head!!! You should have your own TV show.

btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

Look up Chuck Schuldiner you fucking idiot. He had some of the greatest metal solos ever and most of them were of scales that he had no idea he was playing. YES the scale prolly has a name and someone's already played it, but if you have an ear for music you will figure out the scale yourself, thus, making up your own scale.

Yes, because everyone knows that metal music has produced the best solos ever.

Big Ben wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

Big Ben wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

I feel like I remember Paul Gilbert talking about how this was a good idea in a video once.


I suggest learning the Blues scales first. Blues is easiest for me to write a solo that sounds good because it's so easy to put emotion into it with just a few bends thrown in. I learned to improvise with Blues first though.

The funny thing is you aren't really making your "own" scales, you're just taking the hard way around to learning pre-existing ones. Unless you are playing utter dissonance, anything you play with any degree of harmonic cohesiveness has already been charted out as a scale anyway and I'm willing to bet that the "scales" people are "inventing" are just that.

So if you're going to do that why not take the path of least resistance and learn them the proper way and within their accepted context?

I'm not exactly condoning it, but one of my personal viewpoints is the more you learn on guitar yourself the better you'll be. The more you can familiarize yourself by yourself the better. It can't be that dumb to take the hard way and find it on your own, and it probably wouldn't take more than a couple minutes out of your time anyway.

There is absolutely no benefit to "teaching yourself" over formal instruction outside of cost. I was largely self-taught for years and once I took up formal study my progress surpassed my earlier ability a hundred-fold in a fraction of the time. Only the truly gifted can pull it off otherwise and I'd be pretty accurate in saying that no one on this board exhibits such a gift.

Pfl?yd wrote:

Big Ben wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

Big Ben wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

I feel like I remember Paul Gilbert talking about how this was a good idea in a video once.


I suggest learning the Blues scales first. Blues is easiest for me to write a solo that sounds good because it's so easy to put emotion into it with just a few bends thrown in. I learned to improvise with Blues first though.

The funny thing is you aren't really making your "own" scales, you're just taking the hard way around to learning pre-existing ones. Unless you are playing utter dissonance, anything you play with any degree of harmonic cohesiveness has already been charted out as a scale anyway and I'm willing to bet that the "scales" people are "inventing" are just that.

So if you're going to do that why not take the path of least resistance and learn them the proper way and within their accepted context?

I'm not exactly condoning it, but one of my personal viewpoints is the more you learn on guitar yourself the better you'll be. The more you can familiarize yourself by yourself the better. It can't be that dumb to take the hard way and find it on your own, and it probably wouldn't take more than a couple minutes out of your time anyway.

There is absolutely no benefit to "teaching yourself" over formal instruction outside of cost. I was largely self-taught for years and once I took up formal study my progress surpassed my earlier ability a hundred-fold in a fraction of the time. Only the truly gifted can pull it off otherwise and I'd be pretty accurate in saying that no one on this board exhibits such a gift.

So are you saying that no one with that gift/ability would post here ...or
Are you saying that no one that IS here would have that gift/ability?

PABassPlayer wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

Big Ben wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

Big Ben wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

I feel like I remember Paul Gilbert talking about how this was a good idea in a video once.


I suggest learning the Blues scales first. Blues is easiest for me to write a solo that sounds good because it's so easy to put emotion into it with just a few bends thrown in. I learned to improvise with Blues first though.

The funny thing is you aren't really making your "own" scales, you're just taking the hard way around to learning pre-existing ones. Unless you are playing utter dissonance, anything you play with any degree of harmonic cohesiveness has already been charted out as a scale anyway and I'm willing to bet that the "scales" people are "inventing" are just that.

So if you're going to do that why not take the path of least resistance and learn them the proper way and within their accepted context?

I'm not exactly condoning it, but one of my personal viewpoints is the more you learn on guitar yourself the better you'll be. The more you can familiarize yourself by yourself the better. It can't be that dumb to take the hard way and find it on your own, and it probably wouldn't take more than a couple minutes out of your time anyway.

There is absolutely no benefit to "teaching yourself" over formal instruction outside of cost. I was largely self-taught for years and once I took up formal study my progress surpassed my earlier ability a hundred-fold in a fraction of the time. Only the truly gifted can pull it off otherwise and I'd be pretty accurate in saying that no one on this board exhibits such a gift.

So are you saying that no one with that gift/ability would post here ...or
Are you saying that no one that IS here would have that gift/ability?

A little from column A and a little from column B.

Pfl?yd wrote:

Big Ben wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:

Big Ben wrote:

PABassPlayer wrote:btw..."Just make up your own scales" has to be the fucking stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

I feel like I remember Paul Gilbert talking about how this was a good idea in a video once.


I suggest learning the Blues scales first. Blues is easiest for me to write a solo that sounds good because it's so easy to put emotion into it with just a few bends thrown in. I learned to improvise with Blues first though.

The funny thing is you aren't really making your "own" scales, you're just taking the hard way around to learning pre-existing ones. Unless you are playing utter dissonance, anything you play with any degree of harmonic cohesiveness has already been charted out as a scale anyway and I'm willing to bet that the "scales" people are "inventing" are just that.

So if you're going to do that why not take the path of least resistance and learn them the proper way and within their accepted context?

I'm not exactly condoning it, but one of my personal viewpoints is the more you learn on guitar yourself the better you'll be. The more you can familiarize yourself by yourself the better. It can't be that dumb to take the hard way and find it on your own, and it probably wouldn't take more than a couple minutes out of your time anyway.

There is absolutely no benefit to "teaching yourself" over formal instruction outside of cost. I was largely self-taught for years and once I took up formal study my progress surpassed my earlier ability a hundred-fold in a fraction of the time. Only the truly gifted can pull it off otherwise and I'd be pretty accurate in saying that no one on this board exhibits such a gift.

Oh yeah I agree with that, I took lessons for almost four years. What I meant was teaching yourself things by ear instead of a tab or someone showing it to you. The more you can familiarize yourself through that the better, so if you can find notes that sound good enough to be a scale all by yourself that ain't too bad!

Here is my take on it...I think PFloyd will agree.

Self teaching allows you to pick up bad habits and do things "the lazy way" or allows you to "cheat". Then when you go to take actual instruction, it is twice as hard. You now not only have to learn the lesson, but break bad habits also. It took me an estimated year longer to get where I wanted to be as a player because of all the bad habits I had to "re-train" myself.