Panterachat

So in a thread in the All Music Area, Tony and I were discussing CKY's use of the octave effect (I don't know what brand/pedal the guy uses). I said the guitarist's frequent use of the effect was annoying to me, and he said that it was one of his favorite parts of the sound of that band.

I love octavia and similar effects more than most people, but I just think it goes beyond being tasteful once you get halfway through the album and you're still hearing that same guitar tone with the same effect.

It's not the same to me as when you hear The Edge playing with a clean tone and delay and chorus effects in every other song, although I would listen to CKY over U2 any day. I think the difference is that CKY doesn't seem to be doing anything with that sound. The riffs could be part of any rock song with any rock tone. Maybe it just doesn't "connect" with me though and I just don't "get it".

For me, it's similar to the difference between Hendrix's use of wah pedals and Kirk Hammet's wah-drenched ramblings on the Load albums.

Maybe I'm one of those guys who into the whole "tone/effects that serve the song" philosophy, but I do enjoy bands that frequently use guitar effects.

When does the use of effects (not just guitar effects) become distracting/annoying to you?

Tom Morello goes a bit overboard in RATM..The Guerilla Radio 'solo' gives me the shits. I liked his solos better on the self titled than the ones he did with nine volt dildos or whatever on the other albums. The effect I hate most is when singers go all tinny in the bridge or something. Or the Auto Tune shit you hear on the radio.

The thing about Deron Miller of CKY is he doesn't just use an octave pedal (OC3, by the way) but there are several other effects that he tries to keep secret. But yeah, mostly the octave pedal is what you notice.
Like I said, I love the sound they have when it comes to that, but I do think it's overdone. Their last album it was used on every song, which made it hard for any one song to stand out on it's own.
On IDR it was used on nearly every song, but the songs were diverse enough to where it didn't matter.

I agree with you that it can be overdone, but CKY truthfully wouldn't be CKY without that tone. I do think they should try making some songs without it, or at least some songs that don't use it the whole way through...and hopefully they have on this new album.

That's another thing to though. I think when they were making the last album they realized that what fans loved about them was partly the guitar effects from IDR, so they decided thats what they had to do to define themselves. Every band needs their own sound I guess.

the only effects i like are lots of chorus and reverb in a clean "godly" tone.

I'd have to say that it's CKY's signature sound. It doesn't annoy me in the least.

I'd have to say that I'm not annoyed by effects at all. Hell, my band's guitarist doesn't even sound he's playing a guitar ever. Seriously, I'm more annoyed by hearing a fucking Les Paul running through a Marshall now more than anything. Talk about old hat.

Pfl?yd wrote:Seriously, I'm more annoyed by hearing a fucking Les Paul running through a Marshall now more than anything. Talk about old hat.

I agree with this hands down. I don't have a problem with effects themselves. I think for me it becomes distracting when people use them as a gimmick (not that CKY does that; I don't know enough about them to make that claim). Really, the best example I can think of is Kirk Hammet on the Load albums. I don't believe in any kind of rules or boundaries in art, but for some reason I found that "obscene" in a way. It's like it's not about the art anymore. I guess I can't explain it any better.

I agree on Kirk. It's almost as if he uses the wah by default, without considering what would work best with the song.

Overall, I think it really depends on the band. I'd try to think of bands that I like and dislike their use of effects, but it's been a long day. I'm sure I'll think of some eventually.

I wish I knew wtf any of you were talking about but that's probably a minimum two year commitment, eh?

Lord of This World wrote:So in a thread in the All Music Area, Tony and I were discussing CKY's use of the octave effect (I don't know what brand/pedal the guy uses). I said the guitarist's frequent use of the effect was annoying to me, and he said that it was one of his favorite parts of the sound of that band.

I love octavia and similar effects more than most people, but I just think it goes beyond being tasteful once you get halfway through the album and you're still hearing that same guitar tone with the same effect.

It's not the same to me as when you hear The Edge playing with a clean tone and delay and chorus effects in every other song, although I would listen to CKY over U2 any day. I think the difference is that CKY doesn't seem to be doing anything with that sound. The riffs could be part of any rock song with any rock tone. Maybe it just doesn't "connect" with me though and I just don't "get it".

For me, it's similar to the difference between Hendrix's use of wah pedals and Kirk Hammet's wah-drenched ramblings on the Load albums.

Maybe I'm one of those guys who into the whole "tone/effects that serve the song" philosophy, but I do enjoy bands that frequently use guitar effects.

When does the use of effects (not just guitar effects) become distracting/annoying to you?

They should be used more to emphasize or phrase in a song. Ok. Robin Trower is one exception only because he plays original blues licks and he's good at it. Using effects exclusively is gay.

chuckbuksquared wrote:

Lord of This World wrote:So in a thread in the All Music Area, Tony and I were discussing CKY's use of the octave effect (I don't know what brand/pedal the guy uses). I said the guitarist's frequent use of the effect was annoying to me, and he said that it was one of his favorite parts of the sound of that band.

I love octavia and similar effects more than most people, but I just think it goes beyond being tasteful once you get halfway through the album and you're still hearing that same guitar tone with the same effect.

It's not the same to me as when you hear The Edge playing with a clean tone and delay and chorus effects in every other song, although I would listen to CKY over U2 any day. I think the difference is that CKY doesn't seem to be doing anything with that sound. The riffs could be part of any rock song with any rock tone. Maybe it just doesn't "connect" with me though and I just don't "get it".

For me, it's similar to the difference between Hendrix's use of wah pedals and Kirk Hammet's wah-drenched ramblings on the Load albums.

Maybe I'm one of those guys who into the whole "tone/effects that serve the song" philosophy, but I do enjoy bands that frequently use guitar effects.

When does the use of effects (not just guitar effects) become distracting/annoying to you?

They should be used more to emphasize or phrase in a song. Ok. Robin Trower is one exception only because he plays original blues licks and he's good at it. Using effects exclusively is gay.

False.

chuckbuksquared wrote:Using effects exclusively is gay.

I don't think it really matters how much it's used. It's more about HOW it's used. Also, using an amplifier at all is in a sense, an "effect".

I don't know, Leslie West when he plays old Mountain tunes uses a bunch of flanger and delay.

Subtleness of effects is more cool though. For instance, 'The Boys Are Back In Town' you can hear a phaser being used by Scott Gorham.

an example of overuse:

Gigan.



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and that pole in front isn't a mic stand, it's a fucking theremin, which was used as a substitute to string bending.....

Lumber Jack Off wrote:an example of overuse:

Gigan.



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and that pole in front isn't a mic stand, it's a fucking theremin, which was used as a substitute to string bending.....

Theremins are great. I've used them (and heard them used) to great effect. I doubt it's a "substitute" to string-bending because it's a lot harder to play a theremin than it is to just bend strings. And Gigan does some really cool shit with effects. It adds a lot of dimension.

I just find these arguments amusing; we've heard the aforementioned Les Paul/Marshall stack sound for decades and no one really goes on record saying "Hey, don't you think this has been overused a bit" but someone throws a flanger in there on a couple songs and it's "oh my god, quit overusing that sound!"

It's just like the guys that commented on my effects board and were like "Oh my god, you're the bass player, just plug in and play the damn thing". Metalheads are some of the worst offenders of this type of thinking which is funny since metalheads are the first people to cry foul when someone isn't open-minded to their music.

i love cky's sound. i agree with whoever said tom morello. some of his solos / riffs are well served by the use of interesting effects, but on every fucking song, they become impossible to listen to.

i only tend to use effects to mask the inaccuracies of my playing. a bit of chorus / reverb on an acoustic guitar and i sound like a tighter player than i actually am.

Scott 'Wino' Weinrich of The Obsessed/Spirit Caravan/The Hidden Hand has a ridiculous amp and pedal setup. Two Sunn Model T's running through an Orange and Marshall cab and then a Leslie.

Here's his pedal board.



Some of the pedals I don't know how he gets a good tone out of them (Voodoo Labs Sparkledrive or those Foxx tone machines) but he defientley turned me on to smaller pedal making companies.

if you need a theremin just to bend strings you are a lazy cunt who shouldn't even be playing

UNGODLIKE wrote:if you need a theremin just to bend strings you are a lazy cunt who shouldn't even be playing

I wouldn't call it lazy because it's a lot more work to cart around and set up a theremin than it is to just bend strings.

Omar



I think this is fairly conservative compared to past rigs. I would murder him to steal those Moogerfoogers, or just the delay. I tried one out once and it sounds godly, but it's about twice as much as I could justify spending. Even to myself

C'mon Cronin, he should just plug into his amp and learn to play, LOLZ.

I really want to try out the new Big Muff Tone Wicker. Sounds pretty great from what I've heard. I've been looking to get a fuzz for a while.

Pfl?yd wrote:
I just find these arguments amusing; we've heard the aforementioned Les Paul/Marshall stack sound for decades and no one really goes on record saying "Hey, don't you think this has been overused a bit" but someone throws a flanger in there on a couple songs and it's "oh my god, quit overusing that sound!"

I would agree with that but an LP through a Marshall but it still sounds good. The problem is that most people won't sit down to fool with an amp or pedals to try and find their own sound. When I first started I wanted to be Dimebag Barrel but I eventually started finding my own niche through gear and playing style. I already know that part of my sound involves usually an SG or LP through a pushed (clean channel) amp with 6L6 powertubes and a lo-fi dirtbox in front. My playing style has evolved from trying to be the biggest perfectionist to if I hit a wrong note, try bending it or something to make sense to that part of the riff I am playing.I still use a lot of pentatonic and natural minor modes but I am trying to add more influences

croninburg wrote:Omar



I think this is fairly conservative compared to past rigs. I would murder him to steal those Moogerfoogers, or just the delay. I tried one out once and it sounds godly, but it's about twice as much as I could justify spending. Even to myself

Omar is a good example of someone who uses effects really well, in my opinion.

Omar the guy from ATD-I?

Cynosure wrote:Omar the guy from ATD-I?

Yeah, now in The Mars Volta.

Traynor

Cynosure wrote:Omar the guy from ATD-I?

At the Drive-In is almost not even worthy of being mentioned with all of his other music. They were insane live performers because of the sheer amount of energy, but their albums were just...meh.

LOTW, if you want to hear a really cool fuzz/octave on guitar, check out the band Cactus and their cover of the song 'Evil' the solo features the best use of fuzz octave (an old Ampeg scrambler).

I've heard Cactus before, but not enough to remember it that well. I shall check it out soon.

Lord of This World wrote:

Cynosure wrote:Omar the guy from ATD-I?

At the Drive-In is almost not even worthy of being mentioned with all of his other music. They were insane live performers because of the sheer amount of energy, but their albums were just...meh.

I disagree, Relationship of Command was a great album.

Lord of This World wrote:

chuckbuksquared wrote:Using effects exclusively is gay.

I don't think it really matters how much it's used. It's more about HOW it's used. Also, using an amplifier at all is in a sense, an "effect".

The way it's used through an amp is what i'm saying.

Cynosure wrote:

Lord of This World wrote:

Cynosure wrote:Omar the guy from ATD-I?

At the Drive-In is almost not even worthy of being mentioned with all of his other music. They were insane live performers because of the sheer amount of energy, but their albums were just...meh.

I disagree, Relationship of Command was a great album.

Actually, I really like their recorded stuff. In Casino Out has several songs to match Relationship of Command, the prodution just isn't up to scratch. Vaya sounds closer to TMV than anything else they've done, and Acrobatic Tenement has good energy. Omar's solo albums are much more inconsistent than his previous bands, although I am fucking CREAMING to hear the Mars Volta/Hella collaborations

Pfl?yd wrote:C'mon Cronin, he should just plug into his amp and learn to play, LOLZ.

To be fair, he used to be really sloppy. Laying off the heroin and playing music constantly with TMV has done a lot for his playing

Also had to post this. Zappa makes chorus actually sound good from about 2.00-6.00:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOeOlcR_CgE

Edit: if anyone can tell me who the guy singing lead is, I'd be much obliged

croninburg wrote:

Pfl?yd wrote:C'mon Cronin, he should just plug into his amp and learn to play, LOLZ.

To be fair, he used to be really sloppy. Laying off the heroin and playing music constantly with TMV has done a lot for his playing

this is true. I saw them in 03 or so, they opened "mars volta" for A perfect circcle. They had a shit ton of energy. but the crowd hated them. They were alot better than a perfect circle too.

I've seen them 4 times here in the UK. Some fucking great shows

96 Quite bitter beings is an awesome song.

croninburg wrote:Also had to post this. Zappa makes chorus actually sound good from about 2.00-6.00:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOeOlcR_CgE

Edit: if anyone can tell me who the guy singing lead is, I'd be much obliged

Bobby Martin sang it there, but he didn't on the original. Still good though.