Can somone point in the right direction of time signatures

CFH Eternal · Post by **CFH Eternal** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 pm

Besides a music teacher, can someone teach me a better understanding of it. Yeah I get the 4/4 and 3/4 but I guess it gets kind of confusing for me after that.

warhead dime · Post by **warhead dime** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:11 pm

Tap your foot and get used to how the odd times feel against it.

CFH Eternal · Post by **CFH Eternal** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:14 pm

I guess i'm not being clear but I guess I meant something like say 6/8, do you count the triplets as one-and-ah two-and-uh

Does that make any sense what i'm saying?

Three Second Doom · Post by **Three Second Doom** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:17 pm

I'm not too great in odd time sigs, but just from stuff I've learned, it just seems like breaking it down differently.

5/4, a good example would be Take Five by Brubeck. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwNrmYRiX_o

Just count it either 1, 2, 1, 2, 3 or 1, 2, 3, 1, 2.

Good example of another odd signature would be sections of Money by Floyd. The main riff is 7/4, and the rest is 4/4 I believe.

Again, it'd go 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3 or 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 4. Whichever way is easiest to count out 7 beats per measure.

warhead dime · Post by **warhead dime** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:31 pm

Yeah and remember if it is in 7/4 the measure takes longer to complete because a measure would be consisting of 7 quarter notes. If it was 7/8 you'd be counting it faster as it's counting in 8th notes.

And it's also good to note that the odd time signatures start again on the upbeat, it's like a flip-reversal. You could just tap your foot in 4/4, and play in 5 or 7 or whatever and the first and third measures would be downbeat accented and the second and fourth measures would be upbeat accented, that is that the accents switch to the upbeat because of the odd number of beats.

Code: Select all

d   u   d   u   d   u   d   u
1---2---3---4---1---2---3---4
123451234512345123451

Anyways the top line is being counted in quarter notes and the bottom in 16th notes. You could also write the top line as 5/4 so as to show that the bottom line starts over at the 2 which would be 1 if it was being counted in 5/4. You'll see with the 4/4 line that the bottom line repeats (the 1) on 2 due to the odd amount of notes. So just try tapping your foot to odd counts and you'll just get a sense of how it feels. Going with then against the straight beat.

Acid Flashbakc · Post by **Acid Flashbakc** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:17 pm

the most basic way ive ever explained it is this:

count how many times you bang your head until the riff/measure starts over.
if its take five for example, you would normally bob your head to it five times, then the riff repeats.

for something higher in the top number, like 7/4, 8/4, you would normally count 7 or 8 beats in the measure/riff before it repeats/changes.

for something in which the lower number is bigger, like 8, 16, think of it this way: the lower number is what the measure is broken down into. if its something like 6/8, then there are 6 eighth notes in the measure.

if your lost with the real hard shit like 17/8, 10/16, just think of it this way: in 17/8, there are 17 eighth notes in one single measure. so you count 17 beats (of 8 note duration, which is double time of quarter notes) and then the measure changes.

Pfl?yd · Post by **Pfl?yd** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:20 pm

The intro to YYZ is in 10/8. Honestly, the best way to deal with them is to internalize them. And remember that phrases are generally in groups of 3 or 4. That makes it a lot easier to count and feel.

Kellan · Post by **Kellan** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:55 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_(music)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature

Acid Flashbakc · Post by **Acid Flashbakc** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:39 pm

Pfl?yd wrote:The intro to YYZ is in 10/8.

also if it makes it any easier CFH, this also means that it can be counted in 5/4

Pfl?yd · Post by **Pfl?yd** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:39 am

Acid Flashbakc wrote:
Pfl?yd wrote:The intro to YYZ is in 10/8.
also if it makes it any easier CFH, this also means that it can be counted in 5/4

It seems really awkward to do it that way. Not to say that it's mathematically impossible, but there isn't a strong accent on the "6" really.

Acid Flashbakc · Post by **Acid Flashbakc** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:17 am

Pfl?yd wrote:
Acid Flashbakc wrote:
Pfl?yd wrote:The intro to YYZ is in 10/8.
also if it makes it any easier CFH, this also means that it can be counted in 5/4
It seems really awkward to do it that way. Not to say that it's mathematically impossible, but there isn't a strong accent on the "6" really.

oh definitely, i was just showing him that you can split up a time sig a few different ways.

Big Ben · Post by **Big Ben** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:27 pm

The way I usually think of it, everytime the snare is hit by drums it is the end of the measure, does that mean if I'm counting I start over every snare?

Pfl?yd · Post by **Pfl?yd** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:17 pm

Big Ben wrote:The way I usually think of it, everytime the snare is hit by drums it is the end of the measure, does that mean if I'm counting I start over every snare?

uhhh, what?

CFH Eternal · Post by **CFH Eternal** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:01 am

Thanks I am putting this to work. The only way I learned time signatures other than 4/4 was Pink Floyd's money intro and applying it to my riffs.

Pfl?yd · Post by **Pfl?yd** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:35 am

Led Zeppelin's "The Ocean" is a good one too.

Lord of This World · Post by **Lord of This World** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:13 am

Pfl?yd wrote:
Big Ben wrote:The way I usually think of it, everytime the snare is hit by drums it is the end of the measure, does that mean if I'm counting I start over every snare?

uhhh, what?

Cheyenne fucking Buffet · Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:28 am

Big Ben wrote:The way I usually think of it, everytime the snare is hit by drums it is the end of the measure, does that mean if I'm counting I start over every snare?

There are no rules in place stating that you have to hit the snare at any specific count, so that's where I think you're confusing everyone.

whitemike · Post by **whitemike** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:25 pm

Acid Flashbakc wrote:
Pfl?yd wrote:
Acid Flashbakc wrote:
Pfl?yd wrote:The intro to YYZ is in 10/8.
also if it makes it any easier CFH, this also means that it can be counted in 5/4
It seems really awkward to do it that way. Not to say that it's mathematically impossible, but there isn't a strong accent on the "6" really.
oh definitely, i was just showing him that you can split up a time sig a few different ways.

For CFH: You can usually tell what the sig. is by how the groove is implied. Like for the example of YYZ, for it to be a 5/4 beat over that would sound kind of half-time feel, and overly rigid. Whereas because of the pulse it's more accurate, and easier, to count in 10/8

croninburg · Post by **croninburg** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:34 pm

The top number is the one you're counting to, the bottom number is the value, so one bar of 4/4 = one bar of 8/8 or two of 8/16, etc etc.

Money is a classic example, the verse to All You Need Is Love is also in 7/4:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxTpsIVzzo

I'm sure that most musicians who use ridiculous time signatures just subdivide things down anyway. The real talent is making a "normal" time sound otherworldly:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6begaAXMg

...or making an odd one groove like a mofo:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IBvokEwONOU

Kellan · Post by **Kellan** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:41 pm

Damn. it seems that quite a few of you aside from CFH Eternal need to learn how to read time signatures properly. Particularly compound time signatures. You do NOT use the same logic from a simple time signature while reading/interpreting a compound time signature. And though a time signature like 6/8 may have a 3/4 feel, they aren't the same. Prove this to yourself by writing out a rhythm in each time signature and make it so each one can be read to sound exactly the same. They sure won't look the same.

AoD · Post by **AoD** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:00 pm

i always had trouble with this too, but kindof on the opposite side of things... ive almost always struggled with normal straightforward riffs that anyone else can pickup and learn real quick, i have to sit there and focus and get all sweaty but then shit that comes natural to me confuses the shit out of everyone else...

summers_eve · Post by **summers_eve** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:17 am

Acid Flashbakc wrote:
Pfl?yd wrote:
Acid Flashbakc wrote:
Pfl?yd wrote:The intro to YYZ is in 10/8.
also if it makes it any easier CFH, this also means that it can be counted in 5/4
It seems really awkward to do it that way. Not to say that it's mathematically impossible, but there isn't a strong accent on the "6" really.
oh definitely, i was just showing him that you can split up a time sig a few different ways.

All you did was simplify a fraction jackass!

Edna Bodine · Post by **Edna Bodine** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:11 am

Big Ben wrote:The way I usually think of it, everytime the snare is hit by drums it is the end of the measure, does that mean if I'm counting I start over every snare?

Correct. However, when the snare is hit by guitars, a completely different scenario occurs.

Motorhead · Post by **Motorhead** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:20 pm

Edna Bodine wrote:
Big Ben wrote:The way I usually think of it, everytime the snare is hit by drums it is the end of the measure, does that mean if I'm counting I start over every snare?
Correct. However, when the snare is hit by guitars, a completely different scenario occurs.

Oh Edna, you funny

Big Ben · Post by **Big Ben** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:42 pm

Cheyenne fucking Buffet wrote:
Big Ben wrote:The way I usually think of it, everytime the snare is hit by drums it is the end of the measure, does that mean if I'm counting I start over every snare?
There are no rules in place stating that you have to hit the snare at any specific count, so that's where I think you're confusing everyone.

Yeah I fucked that up

Acid Flashbakc · Post by **Acid Flashbakc** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:10 pm

summers_eve wrote:
Acid Flashbakc wrote:
Pfl?yd wrote:
Acid Flashbakc wrote:
Pfl?yd wrote:The intro to YYZ is in 10/8.
also if it makes it any easier CFH, this also means that it can be counted in 5/4
It seems really awkward to do it that way. Not to say that it's mathematically impossible, but there isn't a strong accent on the "6" really.
oh definitely, i was just showing him that you can split up a time sig a few different ways.
All you did was simplify a fraction jackass!

welcome to subdividing