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 Post subject: Cheyenne Fucking Buffet and other drummers perhaps. . .
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:02 am 
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CFB, you have an electronic kit, right? I was looking at buying the DTXTREME III Special and was curious if you had ever played one versus the comparable Roland models in that price range (or any others for that matter). The only thing I liked about the Roland's are the mesh heads which are a lot quieter.

I have a cheap electronic kit running a Roland TD-3 module and you have to crank it horribly loud to not hear all the "clackity-clack" of the stick noise on the drum pads not to mention that you have to play pretty limp-wristedly on the thing to avoid making your wrists sore. I see Yamaha uses the more traditional soft-rubber pads; are they still pretty noisy? How are the sounds and samples in comparison?

Anyone else have any experience with these? There's nowhere around here to try one out for myself and I'd rather get some perspective before dropping four grand on a piece of music equipment.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:55 pm 
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Never played the DTXtreme III, though all of the pads appear to be the same as the snare pad on the DTXpress IV, which I do own.

I did play a Roland TD-20 a few years ago, and it's without a doubt the best e-kit on the market (closest thing to an acoustic kit). Yeah, the mesh heads are a big advantage over the rubber on the DTXtreme III, as is the more realistic hi-hat, with 2 separate pieces as opposed to the hard rubber single unit. Obviously, the TD-20 is $2k more expensive, but if you're already gonna blow 4k on a set, may as well do it all the way. From what I've read, the TD-20 module is also superior.

If you do opt for the Yamaha, you're right, the pad noise is a factor. The hi-hat pad noise is by far the worst. And the hi-hat is by far the weakest link in regards to response and dynamics of any other pad, at least in the DTXpress IV. That fact alone would convince me to move toward the Roland series, 'cause I suspect the DTXtreme III hi-hat is very similar in design.


http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=241218
I use these headphones and pad noise is not a huge issue.

Response and dynamics are pretty good on the DTXpress IV snare pad (which is what all of the pads are on the DTXtreme III). I can't say I have any real complaints in that department. Obviously you need to tinker with the pad settings to get a good dynamic range and all that.

Overall, though, in my opinion, you should spend the extra 2k and get the Roland TD-20. But that's easy for me to say.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:16 pm 
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Somebody find me a bass pedal practice pad that I can order from a UK store

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:34 pm 
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Cheyenne fucking Buffet wrote:
Never played the DTXtreme III, though all of the pads appear to be the same as the snare pad on the DTXpress IV, which I do own.

I did play a Roland TD-20 a few years ago, and it's without a doubt the best e-kit on the market (closest thing to an acoustic kit). Yeah, the mesh heads are a big advantage over the rubber on the DTXtreme III, as is the more realistic hi-hat, with 2 separate pieces as opposed to the hard rubber single unit. Obviously, the TD-20 is $2k more expensive, but if you're already gonna blow 4k on a set, may as well do it all the way. From what I've read, the TD-20 module is also superior.

If you do opt for the Yamaha, you're right, the pad noise is a factor. The hi-hat pad noise is by far the worst. And the hi-hat is by far the weakest link in regards to response and dynamics of any other pad, at least in the DTXpress IV. That fact alone would convince me to move toward the Roland series, 'cause I suspect the DTXtreme III hi-hat is very similar in design.


http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=241218
I use these headphones and pad noise is not a huge issue.

Response and dynamics are pretty good on the DTXpress IV snare pad (which is what all of the pads are on the DTXtreme III). I can't say I have any real complaints in that department. Obviously you need to tinker with the pad settings to get a good dynamic range and all that.

Overall, though, in my opinion, you should spend the extra 2k and get the Roland TD-20. But that's easy for me to say.


Yeah, I'll look into it but I don't know if I want to drop the extra scratch. I'll definitely ponder it though.

The pad noise is more an issue with jamming with other people. I use earbuds with my current setup because I hate headphones and the pad noise is nonexistent there but if I have anyone over to play or rehearse the relative volume has to be a lot higher than I'd like to have the amplified drums actually louder than the "smackity-whack whap whap" of the actual hitting of the sticks on the heads which sort of defeats the purpose of me not using an acoustic kit because of volume factors.

I read some other forums and people give the Yamaha module a lot more kudos than the Roland but I should probably also factor in that I don't use a whole hell of a lot of "electronic-sounding" presets or sounds as the only time I'd use those is for recording and then I just use the drumset to control MIDI sounds in Reason or Logic anyway.

I dismissed the TD-20 outright because of the extra two grand because it didn't seem like a good value compared to the Yamaha which is supposed to be in the same class but now I'll look into it a bit deeper. I'm not a drummer primarily so I had a lot of apprehension even dropping four grand on something when I won't even drop half that on my primary instrument but I really want to get better at drumming and my current set-up is just awful for technique and reliability so I figured if I was going to upgrade I might as well get everything I can.

Thanks for the feedback. :tup:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:07 pm 
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Lager wrote:
Somebody find me a bass pedal practice pad that I can order from a UK store


I have yet to discover any good ones. The feel is never close... and they're always louder than they should be. :tdown: You're better off just getting an affordable electronic setup.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:08 am 
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Cheyenne fucking Buffet wrote:
Lager wrote:
Somebody find me a bass pedal practice pad that I can order from a UK store


I have yet to discover any good ones. The feel is never close... and they're always louder than they should be. :tdown: You're better off just getting an affordable electronic setup.

The room I live in at Uni is like 12 x 8. I only have room for a double pedal, practice pad, and bass pedal practice pad. Owned!

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trendkiller wrote:
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:26 am 
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Lager wrote:
Cheyenne fucking Buffet wrote:
Lager wrote:
Somebody find me a bass pedal practice pad that I can order from a UK store


I have yet to discover any good ones. The feel is never close... and they're always louder than they should be. :tdown: You're better off just getting an affordable electronic setup.

The room I live in at Uni is like 12 x 8. I only have room for a double pedal, practice pad, and bass pedal practice pad. Owned!


This would take up about the same amount of room as those practice devices and folds up in a snap too:

Image

http://drums-percussion.musiciansfriend ... sku=449781

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Izzy: do you realize how broad "environmental science" is?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:04 am 
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Pfl?yd wrote:
Lager wrote:
Cheyenne fucking Buffet wrote:
Lager wrote:
Somebody find me a bass pedal practice pad that I can order from a UK store


I have yet to discover any good ones. The feel is never close... and they're always louder than they should be. :tdown: You're better off just getting an affordable electronic setup.

The room I live in at Uni is like 12 x 8. I only have room for a double pedal, practice pad, and bass pedal practice pad. Owned!


This would take up about the same amount of room as those practice devices and folds up in a snap too:

Image

http://drums-percussion.musiciansfriend ... sku=449781


I don't have that kind of money! and I would never use it once I leave Uni

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trendkiller wrote:
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:09 pm 
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CFB's Yamaha Dtxpress IV is pretty cool and it's only what 12 or $1400. If i had the room in my place to put it i would get it

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:50 am 
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Hunter/Killer wrote:
CFB's Yamaha Dtxpress IV is pretty cool and it's only what 12 or $1400. If i had the room in my place to put it i would get it


It's actually $999 at Musicians Friend. :tup:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:56 am 
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I've also considered an electronic kit. This thread is especially helpful. :tup:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:00 am 
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Thus far, after reading CFB's thoughts and doing some more research on the product features, the contenders are:

Image

Yamaha DTXtreme III Special:

Pros:
--Less expensive ($4,000 street price)
--Nifty hex-rack
--"tunable" drum heads and snare on/off switch on the pads themselves (useful for live applications)
--You can actually load samples into the module of any sound you want (like a certain china? You can load it on the kit. Want a drum kit comprised completely of cat meowing? You can do it)
--3-zone drum and cymbal pads

Cons:
--Traditional rubber pads
--More electronic sounds but fewer realistic acoustic sounds



Image

Roland TD-20:

Pros:

--More realistic acoustic sounds
--More expressive and realistic hi-hat
--Mesh heads
--Hi-hat mounts on any hi-hat stand (good if you use a remote hat)
--Rack conceals cabling

Cons:

--Street price is almost $6,000
--Does not come with a hi-hat stand, so that requires additional investment




I'm still on the fence, personally, I pretty much have decide if the mesh heads are worth an extra $2,000.

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Izzy: do you realize how broad "environmental science" is?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:30 am 
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The TD-20 also looks cooler. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:35 am 
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Yeah, the fact that it looks like actual drums (albeit small ones) as opposed to dinner plates ups its cool factor.

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Izzy: it's like going to school for history
Izzy: well, more useful than that
Izzy: but an expert on the civil war won't know jackshit on uhh
Izzy: something that isnt the civil war

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:13 pm 
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Damn, I want that. But I think your best point, Pfloyd, is when you said it's hard to justify dumping 6k into an instrument that isn't even your primary. Think of the sickass basses you could buy for 6 large. :tup:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:32 pm 
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Can I ask a dumb question?

For those of you where the noise isn't an issue, why would you want one of these? Advantages? Disadvantages? I don't know anyone personally who has an e-set so please refrain from pointing and laughing at me.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:48 pm 
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For most people, noise IS the prime issue in getting an electronic set. But other advantages are ease of transportation and recordability. I was looking into getting one, but I have a MIDI controller so I just scooped up EZDrummer instead. I'm not really a drummer anyways, so most times I just go off the beats already in the program.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:54 pm 
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Something about electronic kits just turns me off. I've played some that sounded great, but they don't feel anywhere near as good as a real drum set.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:50 pm 
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The TD-20 is unreal. It's so well engineered it makes you sound and play better than you actually are. The rebound from the pads is nothing you've ever felt. Tons of rebound but it's zero impact on your wrists, it's really weird.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:53 pm 
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long4theblur wrote:
Damn, I want that. But I think your best point, Pfloyd, is when you said it's hard to justify dumping 6k into an instrument that isn't even your primary. Think of the sickass basses you could buy for 6 large. :tup:


See, what's weird is I have no interest in blowing that kind of money on bass gear. I'm weird like that. Drumsets are a lot more complicated than bass gear; I can play a $400 bass and it'll do all the things I need it to do and will sound how I want it to sound. I have a $400 electronic drum kit and that is definitely NOT the case. The components are fragile, the frame is rickety, the response from cheap heads and crappy triggers make it useful only for a mild practice tool and as a MIDI controller for simple things. I really GOOD drumset, as Kellen mentioned, makes you play a lot better and you feel it a lot more. I've played $4000 basses and $400 basses and I felt the difference was negligible--at least for the difference in price.

Browns Town wrote:
Can I ask a dumb question?

For those of you where the noise isn't an issue, why would you want one of these? Advantages? Disadvantages? I don't know anyone personally who has an e-set so please refrain from pointing and laughing at me.


Lord of This World wrote:
Something about electronic kits just turns me off. I've played some that sounded great, but they don't feel anywhere near as good as a real drum set.



See, I'm the exact opposite. I don't like acoustic kits all that much. I don't enjoy tuning drums. I don't enjoy recording acoustic drums. I don't like that I have fewer set-up options with acoustic drums. I don't like how I can't "turn down" acoustic drums. I don't like trying to jam along to prerecorded music on acoustic drums. I'm a control freak and like controlled environments and I've done little but pull my hair out with acoustic drums. I play them live and that's about the extent of it. Otherwise I prefer electronic drums in all other cases. It's just easier to deal with. The way music production nowadays hypercompresses drum sounds and the fact the electronic drum sounds are a lot better now, the sonic difference on a recording is getting smaller and smaller anyway. Just easier to use them from the get-go.

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Izzy: do you realize how broad "environmental science" is?
Izzy: it's like going to school for history
Izzy: well, more useful than that
Izzy: but an expert on the civil war won't know jackshit on uhh
Izzy: something that isnt the civil war

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:59 am 
King
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Can you play an electronic set through EZDrummer? I still haven't figured out how to get my MIDI controller to work through that program, and the "help" function in it is motherfucking USELESS.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:29 am 
Red Baron
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long4theblur wrote:
Can you play an electronic set through EZDrummer? I still haven't figured out how to get my MIDI controller to work through that program, and the "help" function in it is motherfucking USELESS.


I don't have EZDrummer so I can't exactly give you direct advice. I can't imagine it NOT working, though, if it's MIDI capable. You need to find the instruction manual for your drum module and find out what the note layout of the MIDI information is (for example, C4 = kick drum, D4 = snare drum, etc) and seeing if there is any tool in EZdrummer that lets you set up a MIDI controller.

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Izzy: do you realize how broad "environmental science" is?
Izzy: it's like going to school for history
Izzy: well, more useful than that
Izzy: but an expert on the civil war won't know jackshit on uhh
Izzy: something that isnt the civil war

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:50 pm 
Red Baron
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Okay, I bought the DTXtreme III Special and have had it for a little over a week. This kit is fucking awesome. I actually think it lacks a little more in the electronic sounds department but I really like a great deal of the acoustic-kit sounds. I threw some extra cymbals on it and it plays like a dream. The hi-hat, like was mentioned, is probably it's weakest component; the feel is alright but I like really intricate hi-hat sounds, so I haven't found something totally awesome in that regard yet. I'll have to tinker with it more.

Either way, it's pretty damn awesome. I need to get a better kick pedal though, the springs are nearly shot on mine.

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Izzy: do you realize how broad "environmental science" is?
Izzy: it's like going to school for history
Izzy: well, more useful than that
Izzy: but an expert on the civil war won't know jackshit on uhh
Izzy: something that isnt the civil war

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:11 pm 
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interesting. throw up a vid or pic when you get the chance floyd

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:13 pm 
Red Baron
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stoic wrote:
interesting. throw up a vid or pic when you get the chance floyd


I'm in the middle of remodeling my music room. Once that shit is in order, I'll be throwing up pics like a motherfucker.

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Izzy: do you realize how broad "environmental science" is?
Izzy: it's like going to school for history
Izzy: well, more useful than that
Izzy: but an expert on the civil war won't know jackshit on uhh
Izzy: something that isnt the civil war

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:30 pm 
Lynch Mob
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I have recently been messing around with drums to improve some of my bass techniques on PFloyd buddys advice. :tup:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:31 pm 
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Pfl?yd wrote:
stoic wrote:
interesting. throw up a vid or pic when you get the chance floyd


I'm in the middle of remodeling my music room. Once that shit is in order, I'll be throwing up pics like a motherfucker.


Image

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